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Thread: My take on DT466E HUEI poor / no start troubleshooting

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    My take on DT466E HUEI poor / no start troubleshooting

    this is a cut and paste of a post that I did on another Forum, I am the original author.

    My take on 466E HUEI troubleshooting
    ________________________________________
    I just finished a 466E , hard start/ no start chase.
    It all seems crystal clear NOW.
    Recap.
    truck showed up operator said it wouldn't start without a shot of either,
    engine cranked over fast, and it would fire up after it started to spin a bit faster on either.
    I did all the usual checks , ECM power, Key power, (load tested and independent power source)
    Once in a while the truck would fire up, adding to the confusion.
    Check for fuel pressure at the filter outlet port while cranking ,I believe 35psi is minimum, I had 55-60.

    I started the HUEI (this system uses boosted lube oil pressure to provide injection power instead of the cam shaft like you would see in a electronic unit injector system) specific testing by disconnecting the ICP sensor (injection pressure control).
    this test lets the high pressure oil pump run wide open, so if the engine starts kill it immediately.
    Engine start at unplugged IPC can indicate ICP or harness fault. (harness fault may be more common on later design engines due to the jumper harness in the valve cover.
    IF still no start the next test would be to check for power and ground at the IPR, injection pressure regulator valve, it you have power and a ground, you can either buy a "break out" harness from Navistar or a Bosch injection dealer or you can slip a small spread out cotter pin in between the wires and the weather pack seal (be careful not to short things out and not wreck the seal or wire.
    The jumper allows you to check voltage at key on, cranking and you can check the ground signal from the ecm by powering the multimeter from the starter relay hot side while key on and while cranking.
    The breakout harness or a IPR pig tail will let you put 12V power and ground to the IPR. Again this if full pump, if the engine fires kill it.
    An engine start with independent power to IPC points to probable ECM signal issues either in the harness or the ecm its self.
    There is an oil temp sensor just above the HPOP (high pressure oil pump), un plug and loosen this sensor, oil should seep out of the threads, this is the oil reservoir for the HPOP. no oil here would lead to lube oil system checks, but that would be for a NO start scenario.
    Next test is High pressure oil rail while cranking, for this you need a -6 jic run tee the tee goes into the high pressure line where it enters the oil rail on the head, a -6 jic cap is nice here so you can pop the cap on the rail fitting while you hook the tee up to the HPOP (high pressure oil pump) line.
    You need a 4-5000 psi gage for the HPO rail test, check your rail pressure while cranking it needs to be around 875 I think to fire, I had about 700 ish most of the time,(I did find a o ring seep at the rail inlet, fixing this led to cold start after a fairly long crank.)
    Probably at this time if you can either pull start the truck or either fire it you will find that you get at least 2-3000psi at throttle snap, if so the HPOP and regulator are probably fine.

    Now if some idiot didn't order a truck with half the engine in the cab, pull the valve cover/ intake manifold (early engine) be careful of the injection harness pass through, it needs to be unclipped from the out side (make sure you mark the orientation).
    have someone crank the engine, oil will probably flow from at least one of the injector bases.

    pull said injector. Try not to laugh or cry at the obvious designed break down point.
    the top oil o ring has a little metal backup ring,like a little piston compression ring complete with gap, a rubber or poly backup ring and an o ring, by this time the backup ring will have pushed into the gap and cut it's self, once this cut is big enough the o ring starts to cut, once it cuts you get hard start / no start.
    Order 6 sets of injector o rings, the IH dealer was 5 x as expensive as the Bosch dealer. the bosh guy also sent a set of stainless compression seals to replace the copper ones in the o ring set.

    Do all six injectors unless you really need to patch it and go, I found back up ring damage on all 5 of the others, and 1 was starting to have o ring failure.

    there is a spiral retaining ring that is supposed to eliminate this problem.
    spiral snap ring Hercules pt. no. WH-150 (from the net)
    I couldn't find these in time, the guy needed his truck..
    On my own engine I would try double rubber/poly backup rings or try to find a thicker backup ring to eliminate the gap ring. the second ring was a designed harder durometer one piece ring, the top ring could be made like this too.

    This system is very similar to some 444E and ford /Navistar 7.3 systems

  2. #2
    Senior Member Truck Shop's Avatar
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    Nice write-up Thanks for the info!

    Truck Shop

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    One thing about servicing HUEI injectors, when you pluck one out of the hole you dump fuel and motor oil on top of the piston, well, that is if you don't thoroughly drain the oil and fuel galleys in the head which is not always an easy thing to do. If you do dump fuel and oil on top of the piston, depending on how much went into the cylinder, if you don't get it out of there before you button everything up you take a chance on hydro-locking the piston when you crank it over and possibly bending a connecting rod.

    No worries, there's a simple solution to this problem, the Suck Bucket.

    A simple empty 5 gallon oil bucket with lid. Drill a hole in the lid opposite the pour spout and insert your choice of vinyl tubing in the drilled hole, 1/2" and 5/8" ID works best, 3/4" and bigger tends to collapse.



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    Take your shop vac hose and place it on the pour spout on the lid, now you can suck up liquids into the bucket with the vinyl tubing and not fill your shop vac with oils. BTW, do not use this on volatile liquids like gasoline or solvents, your shop vac motor could ignite the vapors.



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    You can use short pieces of smaller ID/OD tubing to get into smaller holes like an injector port.



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    Drop the tube into the open injector hole and suck up the oil and diesel on top of the piston. In this particular case it was antifreeze. When pulling the injectors on a big Mitsubishi it pulled the injector cup out on #1 piston, filled the cylinder with antifreeze.



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    Last edited by willie59; 12-31-2015 at 08:43 PM.

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    Senior Member Truck Shop's Avatar
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    Good to bring that up, I use something similar which is just a plastic 2 gallon gas jug and run the small hose off the vent.

    Truck Shop

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    That is a really good and really simple plan, I however never clued into using a shop vac no matter how obvious it is now, , I had several containers collapse from trying to use the A/C vacuum pump, until I got a paint canister that is designed for pressure(and can easily stand vacuum) that can be pulled to a good volume.
    Now I will just smarten up and Thank willie59 every time I use a suck bucket

  6. #6
    In case noone here saw the thread that Wille did on the suck bucket here is the link to it.Ron G
    http://www.heavyequipmentforums.com/...ht=suck+bucket

  7. #7
    Administrator willie59's Avatar
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    I'm not familiar with the configuration of a DT466E, but in a former job I've pulled HUEI injectors on Navistar 7.3 and Ford Powerstroke engines. On those engines the heads have SAE hex plugs for drilling the oil passages in the heads for the injectors. One of the first things I'd do is remove those plugs and suck the oil out of the galley's before I pull the injectors thereby minimizing the amount of motor oil that gets dumped on the pistons.

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    If I remember correctly the high pressure oil rail pretty much self drains when the feed line is unhooked, As I recall there wasn't much liquid on top of the pistons when I vac ed them, Synflex air brake tubing also makes great vacuum hose if you need bigger sizes.

  9. #9
    Administrator willie59's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Longhood View Post
    If I remember correctly the high pressure oil rail pretty much self drains when the feed line is unhooked, As I recall there wasn't much liquid on top of the pistons when I vac ed them, Synflex air brake tubing also makes great vacuum hose if you need bigger sizes.
    Which it would most likely do on a DT466E in-line six, but on the V engines, 7.3 and Powerstroke, the feed port is on the uphill side, oil stays in the oil galley in the head, those engines will dump some oil and fuel on top of the pistons.

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  11. #11
    I have a DT466E huei system we just rebuilt the eng. and now we are trying to start it it wants to start but it wont I took the manifold off and replaced the orings going in the injectors but we have lots of oil leaking at the top of the injectors don't know if this is right or not.

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